Apr 18, 05: Soapstone chips and dings?

Posted by nikkir (My Page) on Mon, Apr 18, 05 at 12:58

I just made an appointment for Wednesday to travel about 100 miles to look at soapstone. I think it is what I want, but I do have some reservations. I understand that it is easily scratched but that the scratches can be re-oiled/sanded out and re-oiled. What concerns me most are chips and dings. Do those of you with ss have alot of these around the sink area where the ss and undermount sink meet?

My kitchen is ready for countertops now and I have been measured and have already placed a 50% deposit for granite or ES, but I keep thinking about ss, especially because of the matte finish. I have driven the girl at the stone yard absolutely crazy with calls with questions and visits to look at various types of granite and ES; I'm going to be SO EMBARRASSED to tell her I'm not going to buy what they have to offer...she's been so nice and helpful that I'm going to give her a gift card to a local restaurant regardless of where I get my countertops. (I'm already getting the "crazy lady" reputation at the ss place...many of you can probably relate.)

Chips and dings anyone?

RE: Soapstone chips and dings?

Plenty of chips and dings on my soapstone countertops (1 year old). Near the cooktop where spice bottles have dropped on it. Near the sink. Here and there from who-knows-what (four of us in the household--and the kitchen gets a constant workout with meals and gatherings and parties). I have some chips around the sink, but not as many as one might expect for an area that gets so much use.

None of the chips or dings bother me. I have sandpaper, but I have never bothered to use it. I got soapstone because I KNEW it would get that worn/used look. And I seldom oil my countertops, either. It looks great, to my eye. But if scratches, nicks, chips, and gouges bother you, my advice is to think twice about soapstone.

RE: Soapstone chips and dings?

honed black zimbabwe granite is the closest reproduction of soapstone I have ever seen

slate is another great matte surface that doesn't chip/scratch as readily as some SSs

RE: Soapstone chips and dings?

nikkir, I am taking the plunge with soapstone, but I know your concerns and I have had to think carefully about the choice. I just talked (via email) to the Green Mountain fabricator here in Los Angeles, and he said they use epoxy to fill large gashes and have done so on a number of people's soapstone counters and you can't tell where it was done. He said you could do it yourself if you were handy with such things or they would do it for you. I hadn't heard that before, but it made sense and made me feel better. He said for sure you will get scratches, but that the beauty of soapstone is that even after years of use you can sand it all down and it will look as good as the day you put it in. Now, that made me feel better but then I absolutely LOVE the look. It is true that you can even set your coffee cup down too hard on it and it will scratch or ding -- on my sample it does. But I have found that most of the knicks and scratches, especially on the Green Mountain for some reason, once oiled do disappear. Also, on the Vermont Soapstone sample I have it is very hard to gash it at all so you might look into that company's soapstone. The cost for us out here to use them is pretty prohibitive but I'm still looking into using them because their stone is harder. Picking a counter has been one of our hardest decisions - primarily because neither of us like granite too much.

We plan on using as many plastic spice/oil bottles as possible and maybe have a cutting board near the stove where we set things down alot to minimize the dings. I'm still thinking about what might help around the sink. I too hope I don't regret it, but I bet I won't. I'm not too anal about scratches and am looking forward to having this evolving stone in my house.

mixedplate

RE: Soapstone chips and dings?

Mixedplate, I am in the LA area and somehow was directed to Soapstone West in Escondido...I think they are the distributor for M Tex in So Cal. They do only ss and can fabricate and install. It seemed like a long way to go, so I did a search and found Bourget Flagstone in Santa Monica. I called them and they don't seem to do much ss. You have to hire someone to template, pick up, and install. They said they sell it mainly for bathrooms, and don't recommend it for kitchens because it scratches and chips too easily. So I'm back to Soapstone West.

How are you going about your soapstone purchase?

RE: Soapstone chips and dings?

As much as I just love love love the look of soapstone, I would be one of those people who couldn't live with it. Everyone would be banned from the kitchen because of the possibility they might ding the surface. Mentally, I like the idea of "patina", but in my heart of hearts I know it would make me a nervous wreck. We just got a new car and, when we go to the supermarket, I make my husband park a half a mile from the entrance of stores so there are no cars parked around us.

RE: Soapstone chips and dings?

Nikkir, I don't have the info. with me so I can't give you the phone number right now. I'll have to bring it in to work with me tomorrow. But if you go through Green Mountain Soapstone's website they will send you who to contact for inquiries into their product here in SoCal. It is a company in San Dimas that is the supplier and the fabricator who works with Green Mountain - I'm not sure where he is located -- but he does a lot of work here in west LA. He was super nice and the one I was emailing questions about soapstone to.

I went down to Escondido a couple of weekends ago. They have really nice slabs and will let you oil them as well as spray them to see what they look like. They also have some display counters. They were really easy going and informative. I was interested in Santa Rita, although what they have now is more green then I had wanted. They said in 6-7 weeks they should get another shipment in and that that Santa Rita will be blacker with white veining instead of so much green.

We took our toddler to the Wild Animal park afterwards so made a special day of it.

RE: Soapstone chips and dings?

Open letter to everyone considering soapstone:

Please, please be sure you can emotionally live happily ever after with the scratches, dings and chips before you commit to soapstone. It's truly not for everyone and every kitchen, and I would hate to see anyone pay that kind of money for a stone you're going to end up hating. And I'd hate to see soapstone get a terrible reputation because some owners weren't prepared to live with the drawbacks. They're there and they're real. Very real.

If you cringe at the thought of a ding, please take your feelings seriously! Your soapstone WILL get dinged. If you're consoling yourself with the thought that you can oil away any scratches, then you're trying too hard to make it work. Soapstone is for people who honestly don't mind the scratches. Harder soapstone is not the answer because that will scratch and ding too. Cutting boards and certain edge treatments may help -- but putting away your coffee mugs and spice jars? Is that how you want to live? If you would tiptoe around your kitchen countertops trying not to damage them, then don't get soapstone.

It's beautiful, and seems to be becoming more popular, but like every other fashion, it will fade from popularity. The last thing you want in your kitchen is a countertop that's no longer in fashion and doesn't meet your functional needs and your own personality. Granite or engineered stone is far more resistant to scratching and chipping and comes in a huge variety of colors. If it's the matte quality you want, get your granite honed. If you'd go for honed granite except for the oily fingerprint issue, get a stone sealer/enhancer put on, or use mineral oil on your granite. Or go for a honed-finish engineered stone or one of the new concrete-look solid surface products. They are all good products, with different characteristics that might be better for you.

Soapstone is for people who can honestly view their gray hair and wrinkles as character. It's like your oldest leather chair, your most comfortable Levi's, or an antique oriental rug where the dyes have faded and the pile is wearing through. I'm actually looking forward to the time when my soapstone will acquire the patina of use. That's what I want my house to be -- good, solid materials aging gracefully.

RE: Soapstone chips and dings?

Thanks Sweeby, - honest, well said and informative

RE: Soapstone chips and dings?

The problem is, no countertop choice is 100% acceptable. Granite and ES are too shiny: I would prefer a matte finish in the kitchen of my 1934 home. I just did a search on honed granite again and re-read people's anguish over the problems they have had with it, from staining to just looking bad in general. Corian looks too plasticky to me. I certainly don't want tile with grout lines I have to keep clean. You can't put hot pans on many surfaces. Concrete...well, it looks like concrete. I guess I'll just have to decide between the lesser of the evils.

RE: Soapstone chips and dings?

Sweeby, I just had to say, that was a most EXCELLENT summation on soapstone...very well put indeed! Although at this rate, I think our soapstone will be aging far more gracefully than I will...this house building process brings on more gray hair & wrinkles daily, I swear, than normal life! At least I will think my soapstone is BEAUTIFUL, hahahaahhhaahah :>)

Sweetpea

RE: Soapstone chips and dings?

Perhaps another way to think about soapstone is that it's for people who want to see chips and dings. We're using soapstone on the wet side of our galley kitchen and butcher block on the other side and we'll be disappointed if they don't develop "character."

RE: Soapstone chips and dings?

sweeby, good post. nikkir, your choice may well be honed granite. And any granite that has a good sealing job done on-site after installation will NOT stain. Please be aware that the sealing may require periodic reapplication. And as a rule of thumb, the darker the granite, the less porous it is according to my granite installer. Look into honed absolute black to see if you like it. Good luck.

RE: Soapstone chips and dings?

The jury is still out on honed granite. The fingerprint people are contradicted continuously by the stone sealer/enhancer people. Of course, everyone is emotionally invested in their own choices - so it's sometimes hard to figure out what people are *really* saying. Also, it all depends on lifestyle. If someone doesn't really use their kitchen very much there's probably very little to worry about vis a vis fingerprints. A family with kids using their kitchen intensely might not really want the honed granite.

Sweeby is absolutely right. SS is more of a personality thing than an aesthetic thing. Let's face it - if "form follows function" were an requirement, we would all have Formica countertops. Luckily, variety is the spice of life.

MixedPlate: more ss questions for you

Thanks for the information, Mixedplate. Is it only because Soapstone West doesn't currently have the Santa Rita you wanted that you are going with the local Green Mountain supplier/fabricator, or are there other reasons? Will you be able to go to his location and view the slabs? Does he template and install as well as fabricate? If so, do you pay for only what he installs or do you have to pay for slabs including waste? (SW quoted me $89 sq. ft. installed) What is his time frame? I certainly don't want to wait 6-7 more weeks for Soapstone West's new shipment...I've been without a kitchen for two months already. Sorry for all the questions, but thank you in advance for your answers.

Nikki

Site with info re honed granite problems

I read a lengthy Q & A site regarding granite, and the expert says you should not seal black granites but use a color enhancer. The opinion offered by the expert seems to be that you are making a HUGE MISTAKE if you chose honed granite for countertops. The information presented makes me think that it is something I want to avoid. There are several Q&As, not all relating to honed granite.

Here is a link that might be useful: findstone

RE: Soapstone chips and dings?

Nikki,
With both suppliers you can go view the slabs and pick them. Yes, right now Santa Rita doesn't look like what I expected. They said themselves that what they got last shipment was unusual for Santa Rita - it was just greener then usual. But maybe that would be wonderful for your kitchen. However, I personally always liked the way Green Mountain original looked and only found out last week about the man who fabricates for them in LA. With Green Mountain the slabs are smaller and you most likely will have seams. With M Tex they are larger. This might be important to you.I too don't want to wait 6-7 weeks for the new shipment. However, Soapstone West has a variety of types of soapstone that are quite lovely. I would suggest going if you can. They are open on Saturdays. The GreenMountain supplier is not and I will probably have to take a day off to go out there and see the slabs.
$89 was my quote as well from Soapstone West. It was $85 from GreenMountain. I would definately get samples from both companies.

I don't know what his time frame is but I will bring in the info tomorrow for you. Good luck. Your journey in this sounds so much like ours.

RE: Soapstone chips and dings?

I am getting Green Mountain Original, and have to say that Sweeby is so right on! I went to see a friends ss countertop and she said she keeps bumping her hip on this one part of the countertop and she is HOPING that over time it does wear b/c it will remind her that that is the spot that she always rubbed or bumped up against!! I understood what she was talking about totally, and cannot wait to get my ss countertops in so that I can start oiling them and just stroking my hands across them. That sounds so queer, but I guess I was meant to have ss!

RE: Soapstone chips and dings?

I am getting soapstone from soapstone west. In fact, they are being templated tommorrow. They have been fabulous to work with. We picked out our slabs awhile ago but DH has been giving the cabs extra support and we're finally ready for them (we were the cause of the delay, not them). I've been without a kitchen for over 10 weeks now and am soooo looking forward to rubbing them. I was considering honed granite because I also prefer a matte surface but I love the soapstone. I asked the exact same question here about dings but I just love the soapstone so much that I just decided I'll deal with it...I'm not planning on being supercareful around it. Someone said that anything that takes a chunk out of soapstone (something hard falling) will take a chunk out of other counter materials too. I think this is true.

RE: Soapstone chips and dings?

Bemily, what made your husband decide to give the cabinets extra support, and how did he go about doing that?

RE: Soapstone chips and dings?

I just came home from a trip to my local Walker and Zanger showroom. I was told that they only carry ONE particular type of soapstone (can't remember which one, but one that is mostly dark with some veining but not a green color) They told me the quarry will not be able to get it to their showroom until sometime around July! They also assured me it was a very practical stone in that it can take ANY temperature directly on it. I think it sounds very practical for my counters. I am planning to use marble on my island and that may require a bit more upkeep but neither one sounds out of the question to me.

I much prefer the less formal look of it compared to the granites and other highly polished stones.

I have lived with stained, chipping grout for so long a few dents and/or chips in the ss will be a welcome change.

I am learning so much here and appreciate the "real world" testing everyone has been reporting. Thank you!

Rainforest arrives tomorrow

Topiary, are you looking for soapstone that is more green?Soapstone West is getting their shipment of Rainforest tomorrow and it will be ready for viewing on Wednesday. I decided to wait until then to go down to Escondido to look at everything they have even though I'm not interested in one that run towards green...thought I should keep an open mind though and see it all, because who knows? I've already done a 180 on what I originally planned to get. In what area of So.Cal do you live?

RE: Soapstone chips and dings?

Argh, I have been agonizing for months over whether to get soapstone countertops in my kitchen, and I've finally gotten hubby steered in that direction, and now I have to go and read this HONEST posting. Dang! Now I'm doubting my SS decision again. Can't all you veteran stoners leave us wanna-be's in our little fantasy clouds of flawless SS? LOL

Let me ask you "seasoned" stoners out there: Do all your dings and scratches end up in concentrated areas? I don't think I would mind mild dings and scratches if they were evenly scattered about (yeah right). But I think I would mind a heavily battered and scarred area next to my cooktop and pristine counters in the lesser-used areas.

RE: Soapstone chips and dings?

weeznuts--I got my soapstone in October. I would not call the dings and scratches that I have "heavily battered" anywhere. But neither are the counters "pristine". I would say the wear is "mild" and "scattered about". But the area where DH works, between the sink and the stove, does have more scratches.

I am surprised by how popular this countertop material is getting. I would not expect a material that you know is going to show wear so easily to have such a following. But it is exactly like the folks here are saying. The dings and scratches don't call attention to themselves, but you will know they are there. As long as you are prepared for that, you will be OK.

RE: Soapstone chips and dings?

I was an exchange student in Germany many (many) years ago, and the family that I lived with lived in an old (~300 y.o.) farmhouse. Their kitchen had soapstone counters in one area and a soapstone sink in the scullery. I don't know exactly how long the soapstone had been there, but I do know it was well before WWII. So, 35+ years later, the counters had developed a pretty good patina. That's when I first fell in love with soapstone. The counters didn't look abused -- they just looked lived with, totally organic. Like the person who built the house and installed the countertops fully expected them to be used by his grandchildren (and they were).

RE: Soapstone chips and dings?

I have had Corian (cameo white), granite, and now soapstone. Here's my two cents:

Corian scratches and the scratches are not that easy to "sand out"; it requires resanding the entire surface to bring it back to a "new" condition. It can be done but its a pain. I never did it; just lived with the scratches. It does not develop a "patina" any more than Formica does.

Granite is very hard and durable and when its polished you can damage the surface with a dropped skillet or anything fairly heavy. This will happen and did happen to me. Granite is like a automotive finish, it does not look good with a scratch or ding in the surface; it makes you want to get the scratch or ding fixed immediately. You can't fix this yourself. This may be less noticable in a honed finish but it sounds like that has a number of drawbacks also. Granite, at least when polished, does not develop a "patina".

Soapstone is inert, dense and also durable, as it is stone, but more likely to ding and develop a lot of surface scratches. These will oil out and can be sanded out easily to hide them completely. A big chip can be fixed with colored epoxy and some soapstone dust, sanded out, and reoiled and will blend in nicely. It will not stick out like a sore thumb. Soapstone will develop a "patina".

You must take proper care of any surface and you can ruin any surface by abuse and carelessness. I believe soapstone has a greater chance of surviving normal everyday use and abuse and still look great if not better than new.

RE: Soapstone chips and dings?

Nikkar, This is what DH did:
The top strips sagged a little on our (3) corner cabs so on the 2 backs of corner cabs DH placed 2 x 2 strips vertically.

On the top (of corner cab) from front to back he used 1" channel iron (DH cut/ screwed holes in this)screwed underneath the strip that came on top of cab to firm it up (thats what the ss guys reccomended)

The dishwasher just has padding on top and no support so DH put (3) 1 x 4 strips mounted with L brackets.

He also used cross-strips to frame out the sink cab for an undermount sink. He used 1 x 4's to build a frame.

He also mounted (2) 2 x 4's vertically where the corbels go on our bar area w(hich is 16" deep) and attached heavy wrought iron corbels to them.

Sospstone weighs 20#/sf which is 2# sf heavier than granite. Since there is no sub top under soapstone it takes extra work to make everything flush with cabinets - with other counters the edge can hide whats underneath but not with soapstone.

I hope this wasn't overkill on a basic question.

RE: Soapstone chips and dings?

nikkir, I am in Newport Beach. I too am NOT interested in a "green toned" soapstone. Don't laugh, but I am still in the design phase (have not even sent the plans to the city) on a new house, so I am not in a hurry but feel the sooner I get a "handle" on my kitchen the better off I'll be to make every other decsion. Good luck with your trip down to Escondido! Will be interested to know if you stick to what you think you want. :) I'll probably change my mind 10 times but feel pretty good about ss counters and marble on my island... at least right now!

RE: Soapstone chips and dings?

Nikkir,
I'm in Orange, have been unable to find anybody around here who knows about soapstone and haven't had time to go to Escondido. There is a fellow in San Gabriel who was on this forum and who sounds like another good source. He started a thread a while back, you ought to be able to find him.

RE: Soapstone chips and dings?

For those of you in Orange County, I am also in Newport Beach and just put soapstone in my laundry room counters - I actually stumbled on a remnant in the "bone yard" of the granite fabricators. It doesn't have as much veining as I would like, but I am very happy with it. I think ss is becoming a little more common here, although no one who has seen our house has ever seen soapstone before.
I love the way the ss feels and looks - so far no problems at all.
Oiling has been a low priority compared to the rest of the mess of our move and remodel. I have lost the thread on oiling - can someone tell me the details of how often and and any other tips? Mine is gray and I prefer the black look after it has been oiled.
Thank you!

RE: Soapstone chips and dings?

Nikkir, I have the info for you on who to contact here in SoCal for GreenMountain Soapstone. Call Dave Mahony at ESI. The # is 951-232-6626. ESI are the ones that supply the slabs and I believe can send you samples of original and ice flower. Dave can also put you in contact with the fabricator for your area.

Good luck -- I'm so excited to be getting soapstone! I'm hoping to go out to ESI in a couple of weeks to look at the slabs.

Mixedplate

RE: Soapstone chips and dings?

nikkir - do not judge honed granite by that one very biased website. There are lots of people who are pleased as punch with their honed granite (I am one of them). I think there were/are some problems with certain kinds (not all) of Absolute Black that, when honed, have become awful.

Plus, I just feel compelled to make a comment. Kitchens are the hardest working rooms in the house. Please don't go into your remodel expecting that things (not just the counter) will always look brand new, will never age or show wear. If you do, you will be devastated at that first scratch or dent.

There was a story in here late last year about a woman with a grand beautuful kitchen that must have cost her a fortune. When she was throwing a party, the caterers came into the kitchen with the expectation of heating up the food in her oven. She directed them downstairs, to the kitchen in the basement, because the beautiful kitchen was merely her "show kitchen." (this may have been a Bill Vincent story)

My advice - don't be like that - please. Use your kitchen, enjoy your space, but let it actually be a working space, as it was intended to be.

RE: Soapstone chips and dings?

  • Posted by: kecs (My Page) on Tue, Apr 19, 05 at 12:19
RSMB,

Re oiling: the classic treatments run the gamut from mineral oil (which you can get at the pharmacy or at the hardware store). The pros of mineral oil are ease of application (it's the least viscous of the food-safe oils suitable for soapstone) and cost. Its cons? As the least viscous oil, it evaporates more quickly from the surface and therefore requires more frequent application.

Others love a combo of beeswax and mineral oil. You can cook this up yourself for a pittance in a double boiler or (a costlier option) buy some already prepared. Unlike mineral oil, this finish requires more muscle but it lasts much longer.

A handful here (I belong to this group) prefers tung oil. Ease of application (although not as easy as mineral oil) is one of its pros, but it appears, at least on my counters (which are fairly rough, honed to a 100 grit), to last nearly as long as the beeswax/mineral oil.

Be careful with tung oil-soaked rags, however, as they can combust spontaneously if kept in a closed container.

RE: Soapstone chips and dings?

Is use of Tung oil okay in a food preparation area?

RE: Soapstone chips and dings?

  • Posted by: kecs (My Page) on Tue, Apr 19, 05 at 15:41
Yes. Tung oil is food safe--a recommended oil finish, for example, on children's wooden toys.

You're thinking of the solvents sometimes used to thin tung oil--a no-no IMO for countertops, even though the solvents evaporate.

It's weird that a food-safe oil (made from the nut of a flowering tree) is also capable of spontaneous combustion. But I think this is also true of two other food safe oils: linseed oil and soya-based oils. Go figure!

RE: Soapstone chips and dings?

Pure tung oil is food safe. Some tung oil-based products may not be. If they are food safe, it will say so prominently on the label.

RE: Soapstone chips and dings?

i am about to order my soap stone countertops from a&m stonework in colchester, vermont. i've been shown a counter they did and it's beautiful. the feel, the color...all fit my desire for an organic material that will age gracefully and according to alot of feedback on this page, it sounds like i've ordered the right stuff. i'm interested in what kind of edge people have put on their soapstone countertops and if certain edges are more susecptible to chipping than others.

RE: Soapstone chips and dings?

My SS counters are now one year old and they have many small dings on them. At first I sanded and oiled regularly, but I've relaxed lately. I stopped sanding when I realized that the dings really do blend in. I now oil once a month or less. When freshly oiled, however, the SS is truly beautiful. I'm going to try tung oil and hope that it lasts even longer.

RE: Soapstone chips and dings?

http://www.soapstones.com/index.php?page=home

M. Teixeira Soapstone
these guys did my kitchen, i went with Cobra stone. Had it done last Oct. I have one or two very minor dings and i would have to point it out to you to see it.

Here is a link that might be useful: M. Teixeira Soapstone

RE: Soapstone chips and dings?

Kecs - I have to correct something that you posted. Tung oil soaked rags can self-combust when NOT put in an air-tight container. A friend of ours almost burned down his house because he got slack one day and left a tung oil rag in his garage. He's very lucky. When my dh disposes of tung oil soaked rags, he first soaks them in water, wads it up in a tight ball, wraps it in tin foil very tightly, then puts inside a zip-lock bag.

Others may have simpler procedures, but proper disposal is very important.

RE: Soapstone chips and dings?

JFYI on the tung oil rags...

Don't go crazy and create a landfill nightmare (aluminum foil in a ziplock?)!

THE key to safe disposal is simply allowing the oil to cure. The process of the curing creates heat, so balling it up or leaving it around flamable objects during that process is the no-no.

Simply "line dry" the rags and then once the oil is dry, you can do whatever you want with them. I use clothes pins and hang the rags outside...

Regards,
M.J.

RE: Soapstone chips and dings?

  • Posted by: kecs (My Page) on Tue, Apr 26, 05 at 12:53
Thanks for the additional corrective info.

RE: Soapstone chips and dings?

Good to know. I always thought dh was a bit eccentric with his process.


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