Apr 11, 05: DIY Soapstone Tile Install--pics in gallery

Posted by Garden_Of_Darwin (My Page) on Mon, Apr 11, 05 at 23:40

For anyone interested in DIY Soapstone tile installation, I've posted pictures of our process, so far, in the Gallery. I'm not claiming to be an expert, by any stretch, but I promised a few folks (hi Littlea!) that I'd keep them up to date on what we've done. Plus, I think DIY is great fun--I get to play AND have my dreams come true! Well, we'll see in the morning...:)

Susan

Here is a link that might be useful: DIY Soapstone Tile Install (pictures inline)


RE: DIY Soapstone Tile Install--pics in gallery

Did you epoxy the tiles to the plywood? I am installing soapstone (larger 18"x26") tiles too, and I have been thinsetting them to backerboard, then applying epoxy and squeezing them together. It's not fun at all, and my joints are a bit larger than yours.

All of the advice I've gotten said not to treat it like a slab, i.e. not to apply directly to the plywood. If there are any gaps between the plywood and the tile, the tile could/would crack if pressure or weight was applied. Your method is alot easier than mine, so if it's working, I'm inclined to use your approach on the rest of my counters. Please let me know.

RE: DIY Soapstone Tile Install--pics in gallery

illinipdx

Yes, we did epoxy the tiles directly to the plywood. Only time will tell if we will have trouble, but based on what we know about epoxy (my husband has extensive experience with epoxy from his sailing days and boat-building family), we're not that concerned. We were also advised to use thinset and grout, but we decided against it for a number of reasons--not the least of which was the almost certainty of getting thinset between the stones which would eliminate the possibility of getting them set close. Since epoxy is what soapstone folks use to seam it, and we know epoxy will penetrate the wood and fix anything to it, why not use it all around?? But, we're not exactly new to using it--my husband is quite comfortable with it as a material and we weren't looking at this from a "tile-setting" point of view. Soapstone isn't tile.

We used WestSystem which has a precise measuring system to ensure the proper ratios. We used their fast curing epoxy to make the subbase and to seal it for prevention of moisture penetration, and for the tiles, we used a slow curing epoxy. We "wet out" the plywood and the backs and edge surfaces of the tiles with the tinted epoxy, then mixed another batch of tinted epoxy and added colloidal silica to thicken it. A thick layer of this epoxy was applied to the surface of the plywood and the tiles were placed and aligned. A bead of the thickened epoxy was applied between the tiles with a syringe, and then the tiles were squeezed together. I don't think there will be any gaps as the thickened epoxy would have filled any voids as the level surface of the stones was pressed down onto the level, smooth surface of the plywood. But, as I said...only time will tell. The nice thing is, even if we do get a crack, we can just fill it with epoxy and sand it smooth!

Again, I'm not an expert and I admit that we're doing things against the common practice, so I don't want to lead you blindly into doing it our way. Wish I had a year's perspective on it so that I could tell you with certainty that this was worth it, but we'll have to wait it out. The immediate results are certainly impressive, though. Good luck!

Susan

RE: DIY Soapstone Tile Install--pics in gallery

Thanks for your fast response. I am really tempted to try your approach on the rest of the counters. Where did you get your epoxy and the colloidal silica?

RE: DIY Soapstone Tile Install--pics in gallery

illinipdx

The epoxy system we used is West System, available through LeeValley and marine places like West Marine (no relationship) or BoatUS. We also used their Graphite powder to tint the epoxy...it's not cheap stuff, but these guys have really done their research, and everything is really quite well thought out. My husband has used their products for years, making repairs on wood boats, encapsulating wood for preservation, fixing splinters on the kids' playset, and just today he used it to fix a broken adaptor plug on our portable boombox. Great stuff.

Just as a note: We DID NOT use epoxy based grout. I think this was a misconception everytime we tried to talk to someone about using the epoxy to "grout" the tiles. Epoxy based grouts are NOT the same as the epoxy that we used. West System and other epoxies are infinitely adaptable--you want a fast cure, no problem. Slow? Not a problem. Thick, thin, colored, you name it. Not the same animal as the epoxy based grout that you can buy at Home Depot, etc.

There's alot of products out there...do your research and decide what's best for you. Here's a link for you to start...Good Luck and let me know what you decide.

Susan

Here is a link that might be useful: West System

RE: DIY Soapstone Tile Install--pics in gallery

Although it's not something I'd recommend to someone who doesn't know what they're doing, the same thing CAN be done with epoxy grout, as well. :-)

RE: DIY Soapstone Tile Install--pics in gallery

We are using knife grade epoxy from Oregon Tile and Marble here in town. The first epoxy I used cured really fast, the second one I tried is clear (I tinted it black), but it dried really slowly. I will look into your epoxy.

RE: DIY Soapstone Tile Install--pics in gallery

Bill_Vincent

Thanks Bill--sometimes we do our best work when we don't know what we're doing! Me and DH like taking giant leaps of faith every now and then. :) Not without sufficient upfront research, but sometimes you just have to trust your gut and go with it.

I do truly appreciate your time and willingness to share information on this subject. I'll be back with more questions when I get to the backsplash--now I'm considering using the 6"x6" carerra marble tiles cut into 3"x6" subways with some soapstone scraps as accents. Maybe in a basketweave pattern. I only have 4 sq. ft. to do, so I might give it a whirl, but I may need some advice on a grout that would work with both!

I also wanted to say thanks for the recommendation on the charcoal gray vs. black for the seams in the soapstone. We tested the epoxy/graphite mixes before we settled on a dark charcoal. Hopefully it will blend right out when it's all oiled!

illinipdx

Has anyone told you what "knife grade epoxy" is? I guess I don't understand, although I know that is also what M. Teixeira recommends and I saw it on a sculpture website. We went with what we know--I guess it helps to take SOME of the unknown out of it! When you say the "first" and "second" epoxies that you used...do you mean you've used two types or two different batches of the same stuff? The ambient temperature has a LOT to do with how fast it will cure, along with the ratio of hardener to resin and the formulation of the hardener. Adding things like colorants, fillers, silica, etc will also change it. At least in our experience, but I don't know what "knife grade epoxy" is, so....ymmv.

Susan

RE: DIY Soapstone Tile Install--pics in gallery

We used two different epoxies. The first one was white and the second one was clear. It was pretty tough to get the white epoxy to turn black, so we tried clear instead. The knife grade epoxy is really thick. It looks like a can of lard almost. It can be scraped off with a knife or blade, so maybe that's where the name comes from.

RE: DIY Soapstone Tile Install--pics in gallery

No-- the name comes from it being smooth enough being able to apply it evenly with a putty knife.

RE: DIY Soapstone Tile Install--pics in gallery

illinipdx or Bill -- What knife-grade epoxy do you recommend for soapstone? And where can I get some?

RE: DIY Soapstone Tile Install--pics in gallery

I did it, Susan. I gutted my kitchen yesterday! Well, I did along with my parents and brother, and withOUT my three-year-old - thank goodness for family! So... here I go... : ) About ready to order tile from VS too now, thanks to you. I'm just hoping I get an M. Teixeira sample before I have to order it, though, so I can be certain VS is what I want. I can't thank you enough for all your inspiration!!! Like you said - fun to see everyone's progress in similar veins, as it were!
Well, take care,
Nicole

RE: DIY Soapstone Tile Install--pics in gallery

Sweeby-- I wouldn't recommend knife grade, or any other epoxy. Matter of fact, if you can avoid it, I wouldn't recommend installation with plywood as the bonding surface at all for those not familiar with what they're doing. Even setting with epoxy, there are alot of pitfalls that can screw things up for you, even with epoxy as the setting material. My recommendation would be to use backerboard as your bonding surface, and latex modified thinset as your setting material.

RE: DIY Soapstone Tile Install--pics in gallery

Bill - I'm not the one using soapstone tiles -- I'm using 3 cm slabs directly on top of the cabinet boxes. (Guess I'm in the wrong thread) But our local stone supply company gave us epoxy grout instead of the knife grade to use in the seam between the two slabs. As you can imagine, it was tough to work into the small gap between the two slabs and resulted in a much larger seam (about 1/8") than we were hoping for.

Thanks -Sweeby (also a Susan)

RE: DIY Soapstone Tile Install--pics in gallery

Bill,

On our kitchen island I used backerboard with thinset, then slid our large tiles (18" x 26") together with epoxy between the seams. It was a real challenge to keep the tiles level and aligned, etc. I was thinking of trying something similar to GardenofDarwin's approach of the remaining countertops. Instead of using the epoxy to plywood, I was thinking of using something like liquid nails instead. Is this a bad approach? I can still go the backerboard thinset approach, but I guess I was inspired by this post that there might be an easier way.

RE: DIY Soapstone Tile Install--pics in gallery

Why don't you consider using Ditra for the underlayment, with thinset and grout. It worked great for me. See the photos below.

Here is a link that might be useful: Soapstone Tile Vanity Countertop

RE: DIY Soapstone Tile Install--pics in gallery

cavediver- loved those coppery veins in your tiles. Which soapstone is that?

RE: DIY Soapstone Tile Install--pics in gallery

Its the Ice Flower from Green Mountain. One of the things that I liked about it is its multi color character. It has green, blue, white, black, grey, copper, and red.

RE: DIY Soapstone Tile Install--pics in gallery

Susan-- I agree-- epoxy grout isn't the thing to use for the seams. do a search for a company called Akemi-- they make the knife grade epoxy for stone work, and that's the stuff you want for those seams.

illinipdx-- I agree with cavediver. I don't like using epoxy, especially with natural stone, any more than necessary, for the simple reason that if you have to build up a piece, or a corner of a piece, you can't. It'll just flow up through the joints and make a big mess, and on top of that the piece STILL won't be flush to the ones around it, whereas with thinset this can be done.

posted by starpooh @ 4/20/2005 10:05:00 AM